tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post5527206264046198617..comments2023-11-14T18:39:04.624-07:00Comments on James LaRue - myliblog: Uncle Bobby's WeddingJamiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05759880634583081097noreply@blogger.comBlogger457125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-60737290451344853272022-06-07T17:52:09.482-07:002022-06-07T17:52:09.482-07:00@Bookworm, thanks for taking the time to offer you...@Bookworm, thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts.<br /><br />You mentioned "being aware" of what your 8th grade daughter is reading. Good for you! And you're right that just reading a book (usually) isn't enough to unseat deeply held beliefs. I sometimes think that instead of telling our kids what they can't read, we might ask them what they do read and think WE should read. Then we can talk. Of course, the reverse is also true. Let's recommend books we think they should read, and see if they agree. That is, if we can think of a book they should read, and can articulate why. That is, are we for something, or just against everything?<br /><br />I think you're also right that many so-called religious folks don't have a deep grounding in their own texts. It's like our own memories. Ask people what they believed 14 years ago, and it turns out that they THINK it's just what they believe now. But that's rarely the case. We're always editing our past to more precisely capture our current prejudices. I have long thought that showing up at public meetings, as many folks have done at school board sessions this past year, to read "the naughty bits" of books and ignoring the larger context, could be just as easily done to the Bible as to Toni Morrison's Beloved. Consider the story of Lot. Does "the Bible" endorse gang rape and incest? Or is it all a little more nuanced than a few verses yanked out of a longer text? Americans are really bad at nuance.<br /><br />I disagree that "any librarian that knuckles under to banning any book, for any reason at all, should immediately be terminated from that job." Sometimes librarians and their families, especially in the rural libraries that make up most of our institutions in America, depend on the modest income of their jobs and are in circumstances in which moving is difficult or near-impossible. And sometimes it's better to lose a battle, and remain to fight the war. Recent attempts to CRIMINALIZE librarians (for willfully distributing classic and award-winning literature some politicians now claim is obscene because it is sympathetic to LGBTQ or African-American concerns) illustrate yet another attempt to destroy institutions by attacking individuals, rather than the fundamental values and policies that enjoy surprisingly widespread support.<br /><br />I kind of wish my blog post WAS NOT as relevant as it remains.Jamie LaRuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03740619340857709613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-18518158717748591502022-06-05T17:26:27.458-07:002022-06-05T17:26:27.458-07:00It's now fourteen years since the original blo...It's now fourteen years since the original blog post was made. At this time, the woman's daughter is hopefully 21 years old, hale, and reasonably well educated. <br /><br />It's 458 comments in, so I doubt that this will be read by many (if any) people, but I thought I'd offer some minor thoughts. <br /><br />First, while I didn't read this (or any related books) to my daughter when she was that age, I have no problem with the book being available. Letting her loose in the library to find some books to read is my obligation as a parent, as is checking the stack of books she may have collected. Even now, going on as an 8th grader, it's still my obligation to be aware of what she's looking into. (This has led to some interesting discussions) Books are there to provide information - that's all they do. There is no book that magically forces anyone to suddenly become a 1820's slave owner, a pirate king, a warlord, a wizard, or deviant flavour of the month. They're simply ideas presented to the reader. In this case, we, as parents, should be discussing those ideas with our children. <br /><br />Second, the people who have attempted to throw fundamental Christian *cough* values into the fray? They're poorly educated and do not actually study history - either that of their religion, or that of the country. The biblical standard for marriage was polygamy. King David, for example, had 8 wives. Abraham had either two or three wives. King Solomon was said to have 300 wives and 700 concubines. (1 Kgs 11:3) I suspect we can put much of those numbers down as myth, but the point is that times were hard, and men died faster than women, other than in childbirth. It was generally expected that a man would accept his brother's wife into his family if his brother died. <br /><br />As for the founding on Judaeo-Christian values? That's both true and false. It was founded on the values of a large number of sects of JC origin, likely including information and advice from Jews; there were Jews present as earlier as the 1650's in New Amsterdam (Sephardic), likely as doctors, lawyers, and various trades. The key is that the First Amendment, which those people hide behind, states that the country was founded on freedom _of_ religion, as well as NOT establishing a 'state' religion. All of the founding fathers were either directly from a sect that had been persecuted due to their religious beliefs in their originating country, or descended from those who had fled persecution. Despite my despise of Hamilton and Madison, their document was clearly written in this regard. This is also clearly explained in the Federalist Papers. To put it bluntly, Thomas Jefferson said "But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." (Notes On The State of Virginia) <br /><br />If I were to say anything about the original topic, I would say that I believe that any librarian that knuckles under to banning any book, for any reason at all, should immediately be terminated from that job. The job of a librarian is to provide access to information, and assist in locating information. It is not to be a censor of information, no matter how distasteful it may be to that person. <br /><br />To James LaRue - I am grateful that your blog post still remains, and it remains valid even today. I wish more people would realize that all parts of the original Bill of Rights are equally valid, rather than continually commit treason by trying to legislate around them. Bookwormhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15189663759133608723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-90022177339501058222015-11-02T13:38:56.165-07:002015-11-02T13:38:56.165-07:00Thank you, Neal. I appreciate the kind words. Sadl...Thank you, Neal. I appreciate the kind words. Sadly, I have witnessed conversations between librarians and distraught patrons that did border on rudeness. The cause? Over-defensiveness. Combined with over-protectiveness of parents, we get a situation where everybody stops listening. My belief: librarians and parents are on the same side, not different ones. All of us want the child to thrive. And, in the end, we all want to be treated with respect.<br />Jamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05759880634583081097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-33623253463801534922015-09-01T12:05:59.780-07:002015-09-01T12:05:59.780-07:00I'm sure you thought this had died out, but he...I'm sure you thought this had died out, but here is a message from a children's librarian working in a conservative Illinois town: you are still being read, and despite the Supreme Court's recent decision this matter is still in play.<br /><br />A few weeks ago we had a chapter book informally challenged for similar reasons as Uncle Bobby's Wedding. The parent mainly wished to express surprise and concern at learning of the content from a daughter--content which, I admit, was not indicated in the summary. The objection never went beyond a verbal complaint. The parent didn't want it removed, and eventually decided that avoiding all objectionable content will simply require homeschooling and pre-screening of all books.<br /><br />I wish I had read your letter before speaking to the parent (I was out of town for the original complaint). Our conversation was polite and constructive, but it could have been even better if I'd thought to suggest that the family's values had been successfully instilled! Sheer brilliance.<br /><br />The other thing I'd like to note (and I know that few will actually read this, especially at this date) is that I have to laugh at those who take seriously the statements that professional librarians would be actively rude when faced with this kind of challenge. No, they wouldn't! They might not respond as eloquently and thoughtfully as this, but by and large they'd handle it like professionals because that is what we are.<br /><br />Cheers from a fellow professional.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08533797454254513863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-70759465354924405502014-01-04T02:25:38.779-07:002014-01-04T02:25:38.779-07:00It's now 2014 and I just found this link while...It's now 2014 and I just found this link while looking at Huffpost(well, "just" could be considered a fluid term, as that was an hour, hour and a half ago), and I have to say the letter, the rationality, the commentary from just about everyone on the page here... it's certainly a surprise, and refreshing. There will naturally be a few vehement disagreements, but the "comment section revulsion" one normally gets these days wasn't even close to present. I had plenty of claps, cheers, fistpumps, plus a few facepalms mixed in for good measure. Few things are as beautiful as a writer's intellect and insight. Thank you for posting this, and I'm going to be sure to share this with other folks so it can continue to be appreciated and passed on to others to be appreciated. Bravo to you. =o)RJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02827448630383205257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-16075211349967129762013-09-05T18:21:39.041-07:002013-09-05T18:21:39.041-07:00Thanks to those of you who posted more recently. I...Thanks to those of you who posted more recently. I've learned that there are many things about which people will never agree. But it isn't the job of the library to force the consensus. We just reflect the conversation. Thanks, all, for dropping by and adding your thoughts.Jamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05759880634583081097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-28133710291662573492013-09-05T15:06:22.804-07:002013-09-05T15:06:22.804-07:00As a new resident to Douglas County, and as a fath...As a new resident to Douglas County, and as a father to two young girls who thoroughly enjoy activities at the Parker Library, I wanted to thank you for sharing this. Your letter very graciously and gracefully states her objections and you very kindly addressed each of them. I learned a lot about the Douglas County library system from this reply, and it makes me proud to be a Douglas County resident. Proud, not because I agree with the pro-gay tones of the book (though I don't disagree with them, either), but because this shows that at least one Douglas County official is willing to listen and respond to constituent concerns. I can only hope that Douglas County Mayors and City Councils take the same calm, reasoned, principled, approachable tack that you've taken.Naeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04299807539582289077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-68658854128245244622013-05-07T22:23:44.403-07:002013-05-07T22:23:44.403-07:00And in response to Franz's diatribe, I cannot ...And in response to Franz's diatribe, I cannot get past the part where you used the word "natural" apparently completely ignoring the very natural aspects of the rest of the animal kingdom which would be in support of gayness (generally speaking) given other species also engage in homosexual (and so forth) intercourse. Of course, it's nothing less than grotesque that people go around thinking about those they find different than themselves "having sex" anyway. I certainly do not walk the streets imagining the opposite. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12307798199996597209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-1819389491763845422013-05-07T22:19:42.679-07:002013-05-07T22:19:42.679-07:00This is such a wonderful, thoughtful, and backed u...This is such a wonderful, thoughtful, and backed up letter, Mr. Jamie. Thank you for taking the time to do the topic justice. I am impressed by your extremely kind words. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12307798199996597209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-83164543416201023112013-05-02T05:19:31.499-07:002013-05-02T05:19:31.499-07:002013 and this blog is still being cited in major n...2013 and this blog is still being cited in major news outlets....linked from Huffington Post. Well done.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00611928023523167147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-19006004982597909822013-05-02T02:06:12.452-07:002013-05-02T02:06:12.452-07:00Just spent the evening reading all the comments th...Just spent the evening reading all the comments that follow your excellent letter. I followed a link from HuffPost entitled <i> 16 Books Challenged For LGBT Content</i>.Marvelous, the Kitchen Queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09791655074350688524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-15250065603590462842013-05-01T19:46:07.018-07:002013-05-01T19:46:07.018-07:00Thanks, HappyGirl. I prefer to think of it this w...Thanks, HappyGirl. I prefer to think of it this way: I like that a mom takes her child to the library, pays attention to what we offer, and is willing to talk about it. I think that's what exploration is about. Sometimes you find stuff that makes you uncomfortable. But if you notice and talk about it, you not only learn something yourself, but help others learn, too. In short, it's a recipe for growth. That's a good thing, right?Jamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05759880634583081097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-43334906798054792502013-05-01T13:27:30.899-07:002013-05-01T13:27:30.899-07:00There's not much to add that's original at...There's not much to add that's original at this point -- not even the observation that there's not much to add that's original -- but bravo, sir. This well-reasoned, beautifully written letter is an inspiration.<br /><br />I have to admit to feeling a bit sorry for the complaintant, who surely has missed out on other resources through which she could teach her daughter about relevant universal themes because of details she considers objectionable. "I'd love to show you the forest, honey, but all the dang trees are in the way." Closed-mindedness is a sad, frustrating reality. It's good to know there are folks like you who can meet it with patience, intelligence, and grace.HappyGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07895822875460932823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-22021770823547423302012-10-06T15:44:11.446-07:002012-10-06T15:44:11.446-07:00What a wonderful letter. I have never understood t...What a wonderful letter. I have never understood the banning of books. Books are there to challenge you, get you to ask questions, teach you about life, guide you and so much more. They can be a dream between covers for a child or even an adult. They make you laugh, cry, lose yourself, and yes some bore you to tears. They should never be banned.Ruthannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17059493285220941017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-49267793026977757522012-07-13T15:16:14.510-07:002012-07-13T15:16:14.510-07:00Just a head's up, you got linked from Huffingt...Just a head's up, you got <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/12/books-challenged-for-gay-content_n_1668306.html?ref=topbar#slide=1078750" rel="nofollow">linked</a> from Huffington Post so you're probably going to have a fresh batch of visitors.<br /><br />Excellent discussion that I'm going to use in an upcoming debate on gay marriage.TrogLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11904017863713802931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-30282207097184443922012-07-12T12:08:54.325-07:002012-07-12T12:08:54.325-07:00I just found this blog today and I must say, your ...I just found this blog today and I must say, your letter was so brilliant. Besides being thoughful and resectful, you made it a lesson about the needs of a diverse community. My favorite part is where you tell her you wrote a book about the very thing she is complaining about. I would have just told her to f*** off. I want to be more like you.Alicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03341951914967995155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-84005377484225977132010-09-27T12:54:41.562-07:002010-09-27T12:54:41.562-07:00As a
1) Librarian
2) Christian (PCA)
3) Married h...As a<br /><br />1) Librarian<br />2) Christian (PCA)<br />3) Married heterosexual<br />4) Someone who believes that homosexuality goes against God's will for proper sexual human relationships...<br /><br />This letter was AWESOME. Thank you Jamie, for writing such a well-reasoned and literate defense of the purpose of Libraries. Perhaps Kurt Vonnegut said it best when he said that "If you are an American, you must allow all ideas to circulate freely in your community, not merely your own."Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09132732053931839890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-7269689677727208722010-09-27T09:30:02.988-07:002010-09-27T09:30:02.988-07:00Franz: Thanks for your comments. Not quite sure wh...Franz: Thanks for your comments. Not quite sure what your point is. Libraries do have many rational criteria for book selections, as is discussed in several places throughout the comments. "Right reason" you don't define at all. Your comments about fairy tales deal with only a small part of that literature. "Natural law" you also leave undefined. "Liberty," like most big concepts in our language, has a host of definitions, but I've never seen yours before ("capacity to do good"). The etymological roots seem to suggest it has more to do with "growth" than "truth."<br /><br />And finally, I would beg to differ that there was anything fatal about my decision. No animals were harmed in the writing of this blog. :)Jamiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05759880634583081097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-24990378913359434132010-09-27T07:43:08.697-07:002010-09-27T07:43:08.697-07:00Both the original complaint and your letter in res...Both the original complaint and your letter in response to it are fatally flawed. <br /><br />On the one hand, there is no point in complaining about the "inclusion" of a book in a library which has no rational criteria for its book selections beyond "everything and anything". <br /><br />Your letter in reply cements this point. Regrettably your reasons are based entirely on the status quo of modern US society. <br /><br />Neither sensitivities nor library committees are at stake here - for who could care less? What is a stake is whether the library should employ an discerning criteria for its selections based on "right reason". All other considerations are totally irrelevant and entirely based on subjective opinion. <br /><br />There is sophistry in your comparing traditional fairy tales - which often mark right from wrong with the use of striking imagery - with the matter raised in "Uncle Bobby's Wedding". Acts contrary to the natural law are not condoned in traditional fairytales but in fact the tale itself exists to denounce them. <br /><br />The modern understanding of the word "liberty" is perverse. "Liberty" has no meaning at all if we employ the common opinion that it is "to do and say whatever one wishes". <br /><br />"Liberty" only has meaning when allied to an understanding of Right from Wrong. Indeed it is the "capacity to do the good". The ignorant man is enslaved to his ignorance. The 'free' man is empowered and can distinguish right from wrong. Hence, "The Truth will set you free". <br /><br />Modern American society has fatal misunderstandings of what the Founding Fathers meant by word "Liberty". (French Renaissance philosophers are largely to blame). <br /><br />I welcome your remarks - as there is more to say.<br /><br />Franz ForresterFranz Forresterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302040876405648062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-46251247709087569832010-07-11T20:06:43.850-07:002010-07-11T20:06:43.850-07:00While I'm not sure I could possibly add anythi...While I'm not sure I could possibly add anything new to the conversation, I would like to add my voice to the chorus of "Bravo!"s. Well done.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02610861040919748189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-86528088031226105182010-06-17T17:20:29.126-07:002010-06-17T17:20:29.126-07:00Close minded bitch got told.Close minded bitch got told.Carahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07711699034567513869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-22215713684106140022010-06-15T05:31:25.678-07:002010-06-15T05:31:25.678-07:00I'm not gay, a librarian or even an American b...I'm not gay, a librarian or even an American but I was so impressed with this letter and your handling of the situation that I'm going to take the letter into work to show people as an example of brilliant customer service.<br /><br />I'm also going to see if my local library here in Sheffield, UK, has a copy of Uncle Bobby's Wedding and if not I'm going to donate a copy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12163334382677387160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-35552353333817635832010-06-10T22:54:53.904-07:002010-06-10T22:54:53.904-07:00Thanks for sharing Wonderful moment.Thanks for sharing Wonderful moment.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17462241930456251358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-25383014175194633152010-06-04T13:32:37.969-07:002010-06-04T13:32:37.969-07:00What a fantastic letter. To defend your position w...What a fantastic letter. To defend your position without belittling your patron's concerns is difficult at best and you rose to the occasion with grace and dignity.Chat Noir Books - A Voice in the Wildernesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14829234603144364250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5863889655787695005.post-61352857370059867722010-05-28T10:58:30.062-07:002010-05-28T10:58:30.062-07:00Beautifully reasoned and well written very well wr...Beautifully reasoned and well written very well written letter.<br />Well done!Kavosh Rayanehhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17117851830136343744noreply@blogger.com